The Way Forward: Regenerative Conversations

After a bruising election season, author and public theologian Brian McLaren returns to The Way Forward to talk about his new novel, The Great Rift, and how we begin to heal the rifts between us. It starts with an angry neighbor, a back fence, and one curious question.
The Great Rift follows a small human colony on Mars that survives everything except itself. With Dr. John Izzo and Alain Gauthier, Brian explores why a story can change us when an argument can't, how communities crack through hairline fractures no one notices, why telling angry people to calm down never works, what it means to restore trust instead of punishing the few, the role of extreme wealth, why we need elders, and the kind of hope worth holding right now.
Guest: Brian D. McLaren is an author, speaker, activist and public theologian, a former college English teacher and founding pastor of Cedar Ridge Community Church, and Dean of Faculty at the Center for Action and Contemplation. The Great Rift is the second novel in his Last Voyage series. https://brianmclaren.net
Hosted by Dr. John Izzo and Alain Gauthier · produced by Jim BurkeWatch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Goz7UacgZskWebsite & newsletter: https://wayforwardpodcast.com · Linktree: https://linktr.ee/wayforwardpodcast · Email: thewayforwardrc@gmail.com

The CEO of America's largest depolarization organization has two children who aren't speaking to each other — one conservative, one progressive. Maury Giles of Braver Angels joins Dr. John Izzo to explain why "don't talk about politics" is the wrong answer in a country built on self-government, why he has never once asked anyone to be nice, and what ten years of bringing Republicans and Democrats into the same room reveals: we share the same values and weight them differently. He lays out "courageous citizenship" — act instead of react, build across difference, own your part — and the practical tools behind it: one-on-one conversations, common-ground workshops, and citizen-led solutions that treat elected officials as "on tap, not on top."
Guest: Maury Giles — CEO of Braver Angels (https://braverangels.org · YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BraverAngels), the country's largest volunteer-led effort to help Americans work across political difference. A conservative based in Salt Lake City, he came to the role after a long corporate career in research and strategy and five years as a Braver Angels volunteer — and was nominated for the job by a colleague from the other side of the aisle.
🎙️ Hosted by Dr. John Izzo and Alain Gauthier · produced by Jim Burke
🤝 In collaboration with @BraverAngels
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💬 Have you had a real conversation lately with someone who votes differently than you? What happened? Tell us at thewayforwardrc@gmail.com.
🔗 Mentions & Resources:
🤝 Braver Angels — sign up for a one-on-one conversation or find your local alliance: https://braverangels.org
▶️ Braver Angels on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BraverAngels
📖 Jonathan Haidt, "The Righteous Mind"
📖 James Madison, The Federalist Papers
🏛️ National Civic League (database of 12,000+ civic-renewal organizations): https://www.nationalcivicleague.org
🎧 Our earlier episode in this series with Beth Noveck on rigidity, contempt, and democratic decline: https://regenerationthewayforward.podbean.com/e/ai-vs-democracy/
Connect With Us:
🌐 Website: https://wayforwardpodcast.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/wayforwardpodcast
📧 Email: thewayforwardrc@gmail.com
👉 SUBSCRIBE to The Way Forward for more conversations that matter!
💬 Send us your thoughts at thewayforwardrc@gmail.com — we want to hear from YOU.
⚠️ Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this episode are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the official position of The Way Forward. This content is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be taken as professional advice.

Al Gore called the war with Iran "a colossal mistake... on the level of Hitler invading Russia." Veteran Iran-watcher Barbara Slavin goes further: the worst U.S. mistake in the Middle East in 60 years. Six months into the war, she returns to The Way Forward to untangle who is actually in charge in Tehran now, why the doctrine of "escalate to de-escalate" has closed the Strait of Hormuz and sent oil prices soaring, what Netanyahu promised Trump in the situation room, and what the war has meant for the people of Iran — the protests, the repression, and the economy. Most importantly: is there a way out that's good for Iranians and for the world?
Guest: Barbara Slavin — Distinguished Fellow at the Stimson Center, veteran journalist on U.S.–Iran relations, and author of "Bitter Friends, Bosom Enemies: Iran, the U.S., and the Twisted Path to Confrontation."
🎙️ Hosted by Dr. John Izzo and Alain Gauthier · produced by Jim Burke
⏱️ CHAPTERS00:00 Cold open — "A colossal mistake"00:57 What we cover today01:28 Welcome & setting the stage03:16 What Barbara underestimated six months ago05:08 Who is really in charge in Iran now?08:36 The IRGC and "escalate to de-escalate"11:04 Did Trump think Iran would surrender?13:34 Factional fights in Tehran: fiction or reality?16:51 The nuclear file — leverage, not distraction19:31 The unfortunate lesson about nuclear weapons21:47 What the war means for the people of Iran26:20 A path to real change? The 1953 Mosaddegh overthrow — and the great what-if30:40 A quick word from us — subscribe & support the show31:41 The limits of power: Russia, China, and Taiwan35:27 NATO and the damage to America's alliances39:13 The Al Gore story — "worst mistake in 60 years"42:35 Can Europe or China broker a way out?44:04 What a good deal would actually look like45:33 Energy, climate, and the way off fossil fuels48:12 Will Iran's proxy strategy ever change?53:37 What gives Barbara hope56:42 Closing reflections58:14 Outro
👉 SUBSCRIBE so you never miss an episode: https://www.youtube.com/@thewayforwardrc?sub_confirmation=1🎧 Prefer audio? Listen & follow on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-way-forward-regenerative-conversations/id1651941803💬 Do you see a way out of this war that's good for the people of Iran AND the world? Tell us at thewayforwardrc@gmail.com.
🔗 Mentions & Resources:📖 Barbara's book: "Bitter Friends, Bosom Enemies: Iran, the U.S., and the Twisted Path to Confrontation"📰 Barbara's Middle East Perspectives commentaries at the Stimson Center: https://www.stimson.org/🤝 Support the Stimson Center: https://www.stimson.org/support/
Connect With Us:🌐 Website: https://wayforwardpodcast.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/wayforwardpodcast📧 Email: thewayforwardrc@gmail.com
👉 SUBSCRIBE to The Way Forward for more conversations that matter!💬 Send us your thoughts at thewayforwardrc@gmail.com — we want to hear from YOU.
⚠️ Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this episode are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the official position of The Way Forward. This content is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be taken as professional advice.

What if the most important conversations we can have — about politics, faith, and family — are the ones we've stopped having out of fear?
Journalist and bridge-builder Mónica Guzmán joins hosts Dr. John Izzo and Dr. Polina Orlowski to explore why families, communities, and entire generations have stopped talking across political divides — and what it will take to rebuild understanding. Drawing from her book "I Never Thought of It That Way: How to Have Fearlessly Curious Conversations in Dangerously Divided Times," Mónica shares the personal story behind her work (a tender moment with her father on Election Day), the neuroscience of why hard conversations feel like physical threats ("our fear of social death is greater than our fear of physical death"), and the practical discipline of curiosity that anyone can develop.
Also in this episode: the role of social media and AI in deepening polarization, how to model brave conversations for children, the "productive conversation" model that distinguishes inquiry from debate, and the Trustworthy Elections Project — where regular citizens from across the political spectrum found 727 points of agreement on a single contested issue.
ABOUT OUR GUESTMónica Guzmán is founder and CEO of Reclaim Curiosity, Senior Fellow for Public Practice at Braver Angels, and host of the podcast A Braver Way.Website: https://moniguzman.comBook: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/I-Never-Thought-of-It-That-Way/Monica-Guzman/9781637746028Braver Angels: https://braverangels.org
YOUR HOSTSDr. John Izzo — bestselling author and pioneer in regenerative leadership. https://drjohnizzo.comDr. Polina Orlowski, DNP, RN, CNL, CPHQ — Director of Quality & Patient Safety at Ascension.
CONNECTLinktree: https://linktr.ee/wayforwardpodcastWebsite: https://wayforwardpodcast.comWatch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thewayforwardrcEmail: thewayforwardrc@gmail.com
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Raised in Russia. Imprinted by 9/11. Polina Orlowski watched the towers fall from an American middle-school classroom just months after immigrating from St. Petersburg — and that moment still shapes how she sees democracy, safety, and America today.
In this episode of The Way Forward: Regenerative Conversations, Dr. John Izzo (a boomer who came of age during Vietnam, Kent State, and the civil rights movement) and Polina Orlowski (a Russian-born millennial, healthcare leader, and mom) explore why generations see the big issues of our time — polarization, freedom, democracy — so differently.
Their lens: sociologist Dr. Morris Massey's famous idea, "You are where you were when" — the theory that the events we live through between roughly ages 14 and 22 imprint how we see society for the rest of our lives.
Together they trace two very different imprints: John's generation, marked by protest, assassination, and Watergate — but also the conviction that citizens can change things. Polina's generation, marked by 9/11, school shootings, the financial crisis, and COVID — a "destabilization imprint" she calls the eggshell generation, always braced for the next crisis. And they ask the question underneath it all: if we are where we were when, how do we get out of our bubbles and truly understand each other?
This is Part 1 of our series on polarization and democracy. Next episode: Mónica Guzmán on how to have brave conversations in dangerously divided times.
⏱️ CHAPTERS00:00 – Cold open: raised in Russia, shaped by 9/1101:14 – Welcome: a cross-generational look at polarization02:17 – Morris Massey: "You are where you were when"05:36 – Polina's story: leaving St. Petersburg at 1306:52 – Watching 9/11 as a brand-new American09:17 – "Have you ever seen a cow?" — memories of Russia11:23 – John's imprint: Vietnam, MLK, Kent State14:45 – Becoming a citizen: the 2013 awakening16:43 – The millennial imprint: 9/11, shootings, crash, COVID18:47 – The boomer contrast: 20 years of stability23:43 – "It's all in the rowing": how John & Polina met29:56 – Keeping Russia close: family, memory, misconceptions38:41 – Political discourse then vs. now42:32 – "Not talking about it is not working"52:58 – What each generation fears — and needs from the other56:17 – Hitting bottom: the hope in "it's not working"58:16 – The eggshell generation: kids and shooter drills1:00:38 – Closing: getting out of our bubbles
🎙️ ABOUT YOUR HOSTSDr. John Izzo — bestselling author of nine books, Distinguished Fellow at the Stimson Center, and advisor to leaders worldwide. 🌐 https://drjohnizzo.com | LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/johnizzo
Dr. Polina Orlowski, DNP, RN, CNL — doctorally prepared nurse leader with 15 years in healthcare, serving as a national Program Manager for Performance Improvement in a multi-state health system. She immigrated from Russia at 13 and brings a cross-cultural, cross-generational lens to the future of democracy.
💬 JOIN THE CONVERSATIONWhat moment from YOUR "socialization years" (ages 14–22) still shapes how you see the world today? Tell us at thewayforwardrc@gmail.com.
🔔 Subscribe so you don't miss Part 2 with Mónica Guzmán:https://www.youtube.com/@thewayforwardrc?sub_confirmation=1
🎧 Listen on Apple Podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-way-forward-regenerative-conversations/id1651941803
🌐 Website: https://wayforwardpodcast.com🔗 All our links: https://linktr.ee/wayforwardpodcast📧 Reach out: thewayforwardrc@gmail.com

Only one in ten Americans say our democracy is working well. What if the technology many of us fear could help repair it?
Dr. John Izzo talks with Beth Simone Noveck, who served in the Obama White House, advised 10 Downing Street, and wrote Reboot: AI and the Race to Save Democracy. Beth sets aside the two familiar AI stories, apocalypse and gold rush, and asks a quieter question: can AI help us govern better, listen better, and rebuild trust between citizens and their institutions? She shares examples already in use, from the UK government analyzing public consultations in hours instead of months to tools that help small towns win public funding. They also look at the harder parts: political rigidity, gerrymandering, and the reminder that AI is only as good as we are.
Guest: Beth Simone Noveck is a professor at Northeastern University, where she directs the Burnes Center for Social Change and The GovLab. She was the first U.S. Deputy Chief Technology Officer and New Jersey's first Chief Innovation Officer and Chief AI Strategist.Book: https://rebootdemocracy.ai/book/InnovateUS: https://innovate-us.org/
Hosted by Dr. John Izzo · produced by Jim Burke
Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thewayforwardrcWebsite and newsletter: https://wayforwardpodcast.comLinktree: https://linktr.ee/wayforwardpodcastEmail: thewayforwardrc@gmail.com

What if a river could be brought back to life after a century behind concrete? Amy Bowers Cordalis grew up on the Klamath River, watched the largest salmon kill in American history unfold before her eyes, and then helped lead the largest dam-removal and salmon-restoration project the world has ever seen. This is the story of a 170-year family fight, a people who refused to give up, and the moment the salmon finally came home. Come for the victory — stay for what it teaches us about healing ourselves, our communities, and the Earth.
Episode Summary
In this episode of The Way Forward: Regenerative Conversations, Dr. John Izzo and Alain Gauthier sit down with Yurok attorney, activist, and author Amy Bowers Cordalis to explore one of the great environmental and human-rights stories of our time. Amy takes us from her earliest memories of abundance on the Klamath River, through generations of Indigenous resistance, to the catastrophic 2002 fish kill that set her on a path to law school and a lifelong mission. She shares how the Yurok Tribe declared personhood rights for the Klamath, how the river itself “spoke” to power-company executives at Blue Creek, and how four dams finally came down — with salmon returning to spawning grounds they hadn’t reached in a hundred years. Along the way, the conversation turns to faith, joy, the false narratives that keep us divided, and the truth that we are not apart from nature but a part of it. It is a story of rewilding, regeneration, and hope: if the river can heal, so can we.
About the Guest — Amy Bowers Cordalis
Amy Bowers Cordalis is a Yurok Tribal member, attorney, and activist who served as General Counsel for the Yurok Tribe and was instrumental in the historic removal of four dams on the Klamath River — the largest salmon-restoration project in world history. A former attorney with the Native American Rights Fund, she was named a 2024 United Nations Champion of the Earth (Inspiration and Action) and included on the 2024 TIME100 Climate list of the most influential leaders in climate action.
She is co-founder and Executive Director of Ridges to Riffles Indigenous Conservation Group, which she established in 2022 with co-founder Molli Myers (Karuk). The organization provides legal, scientific, and grassroots support to Indigenous Peoples working to protect and restore the natural and cultural resources at the heart of their identity and sovereignty.
Amy is also the author of the acclaimed memoir The Water Remembers: My Indigenous Family’s Fight to Save a River and a Way of Life (2025), a multigenerational story of Indigenous resistance, environmental justice, and homecoming.
Connect with Amy and her work:
Website: https://amybowerscordalis.com
Ridges to Riffles: https://www.ridgestoriffles.org
The Book: The Water Remembers (Hachette Book Group)
Ridges to Riffles — Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ridgestoriffles
Ridges to Riffles — Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ridgestoriffles
About the Hosts
Dr. John Izzo is a bestselling author, speaker, and advisor who has spent more than 30 years working at the intersection of leadership, purpose, and social responsibility. He has spoken to over a million people, advised hundreds of leading organizations, and written nine books, including The Purpose Revolution and Stepping Up. A former Presbyterian minister with a Ph.D. in Communication Studies, John brings a deep grounding in both spiritual traditions and practical change-making to every conversation. Learn more at https://drjohnizzo.com.
Alain Gauthier is co-founder and coordinator of the Regenerative Elder Process (REP) at the Elders Action Network (EAN). Now in his 80s, Alain devotes his work to co-creating the conditions for elders to live regenerative lives and to collaborate with younger generations in transforming education and community life. Inspired largely by Indigenous worldviews, the Regenerative Elder Process supports elders in integrating inner growth, community wisdom, and courageous action to help regenerate society, democracy, and the living Earth for future generations. Learn more at https://eldersaction.org/regenerative-elder-process.
About The Way Forward
The Way Forward: Regenerative Conversations is hosted by Dr. John Izzo, Alain Gauthier, and producer Jim Burke. The podcast explores the deeper questions facing humanity through thoughtful dialogue with scholars, leaders, and practitioners working toward a more regenerative future.
Connect With Us
Linktree: https://linktr.ee/wayforwardpodcast
Website: https://wayforwardpodcast.com
Email: thewayforwardrc@gmail.com
Join the Conversation
If you value thoughtful conversations like this:
Follow the show in your podcast app
Share your reflections at thewayforwardrc@gmail.com
We’d love to hear what this story stirred in you — write to us and let us know.
Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/dYvwVjJYzwQ

What is really happening in the growing conflict involving Iran, Israel, and the United States — and how should we understand it beyond the headlines?
In this episode of The Way Forward: Regenerative Conversations, veteran journalist and Middle East expert Barbara Slavin joins us for a thoughtful exploration of the historical, political, and cultural forces shaping the current crisis.
Barbara is a Distinguished Fellow at the Stimson Center, one of Washington’s leading non-partisan think tanks focused on international peace and security. With more than three decades covering Iran and nine visits to the country, she brings rare depth and nuance to a conversation often reduced to polarized narratives.
This discussion explores the Iran conflict, U.S.–Iran relations, Israel–Iran tensions, Middle East geopolitics, nuclear diplomacy, sanctions policy, and the future of regional stability.
Rather than amplifying fear or taking sides, we slow down and ask:
What historical forces led to this moment?• How does Iranian nationalism shape current events?• What geopolitical realities lie behind the headlines?• What roles do Russia, China, Europe, and regional powers play?• What realistic paths forward might still exist?
Our goal — consistent with the spirit of The Way Forward — is to offer a calm, reflective conversation that helps us understand complex global events with greater depth and wisdom.
Topics Covered
Iran–Israel tensions and escalation risks• U.S.–Iran relations and the legacy of the 1953 coup• Iran’s nuclear program and regional security• Russia and China’s role in Middle East geopolitics• Economic pressures and protests inside Iran• Iranian nationalism and public opinion• Drone warfare and asymmetric military strategy• Diplomacy, sanctions relief, and possible paths forward• Cultural understanding between the United States and Iran
Timestamps
00:00 Introduction — why this conflict matters now03:15 Barbara’s 30-year journey studying Iran06:00 Escalation from the 2025 bombings06:22 Was the strike on Iran a surprise?09:29 Iranian nationalism and the legacy of the 1953 coup11:37 Possible pathways for the crisis14:59 Iran’s drone capabilities15:22 The human dimension inside Iran19:43 Economic pressures and protests20:21 The nuclear question25:01 Why targeting leaders rarely works26:48 Diverging U.S. and Israeli objectives30:06 Russia and China’s strategic role33:35 Impact on Gulf states and regional stability35:52 Diplomacy and sanctions relief38:03 Iranian culture and civilization43:05 Iranian public opinion on Israel46:00 Can Europe play a constructive role?48:06 Barbara’s closing reflections52:05 John’s closing thoughts
About Our Guest
Barbara Slavin is a Distinguished Fellow at the Stimson Center, a leading Washington think tank dedicated to international peace and security. She previously reported for The Economist and USA Today and has covered Iran and the Middle East for more than 30 years.
Her book Bitter Friends, Bosom Enemies remains one of the most insightful analyses of U.S.–Iran relations.
Watch Our Previous Conversation
The Middle East in Crisis: A Conversation with Barbara Slavinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwiYDua4Jnk&t=863s
About The Way Forward
The Way Forward: Regenerative Conversations is hosted by Dr. John Izzo, Alain Gauthier, and producer Jim Burke.
The podcast explores the deeper questions facing humanity through thoughtful dialogue with scholars, leaders, and practitioners working toward a more regenerative future.
Connect With Us
Linktreehttps://linktr.ee/wayforwardpodcast
Websitehttps://wayforwardpodcast.com
Emailthewayforwardrc@gmail.com
Join the Conversation
If you value thoughtful conversations like this:
👍 Follow the show in your podcast app💬 Share your reflections at thewayforwardrc@gmail.com
What perspectives on Iran or the Middle East deserve deeper discussion?

Immigration has become the defining fault line of our time — but are we really as divided as it seems? Dr. John Izzo and Alain Gauthier are joined by Kathryn Ringham, an elder activist living at the center of the storm in Minneapolis. Together they unpack what's happening on the ground, what the polling data actually reveals, and what a genuine way forward looks like.
🎧 What You'll Hear
John's Sicilian grandparents and why the melting pot has always been a myth
Kathryn on 'Metro Siege': fear, unmarked cars, and a community under pressure
50,000 protesters in minus-29-degree wind chill — and the 'Minneapolis Model'
What polling actually shows: where Republicans and Democrats agree
40 years of failed reform — IRCA 1986, the Johnson-Reid Act, McCain-Kennedy 2006
Alain on Europe's parallel identity crisis and the power of relational energy
💡 Key Quotes
"Immigration is not a crisis to eliminate — it's a force to manage wisely."
— Kathryn Ringham
"The extremes are holding the conversation — but most Americans are far more nuanced."
— Dr. John Izzo
"We need to move from fear to love — relational energy people feel for their children and grandchildren."
— Alain Gauthier
📊 Key Data
79% of Democrats support deportation of criminal immigrants
65% of Republicans say immigration is good for the United States
60% of Republicans support a path to status for long-term, law-abiding residents
60% of Americans say ICE tactics in Minneapolis were too harsh
Last major immigration reform: IRCA, 1986 — nearly 40 years ago
👥 Hosts & Guest
Dr. John Izzo — bestselling author, keynote speaker, board member of Elders Action Network, and co-host. Nine books, 500+ companies advised, 1M+ people reached.
Alain Gauthier — international facilitator, systems thinker, and co-host. French immigrant and 40-year green card holder bringing a rare transatlantic lens to every conversation.
Kathryn Ringham — elder activist, retired clinical social worker, and lifelong Minneapolis resident. Member of the Elders Action Network, living two miles from the epicenter of the ICE surge.
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Thank you for being part of our community.
Honest conversations are where the way forward always begins.
Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/AhajI4ICjIg

In a culture focused on youth, are elders still relevant, or more needed than ever?
Dr. John Izzo, Alain Gauthier, Jim Burke and Diana Shoemaker, Executive Director of Elders Action Network, talk about what it means to be a regenerative elder: someone who brings together inner growth, community wisdom and action on behalf of future generations. They describe the work of Elders Action Network and its Elders Rising hub, including the Regenerative Elder Process, Exploring Elderhood, Resilience & Acceptance, and Future Design, and how elders can move from retirement toward contribution, locally and alongside younger generations.
Episode Chapters
00:00 Introduction – The Role of Elders in Modern Society01:09 John’s Experience with Elders in Tanzania02:42 Introducing the Elders Action Network04:25 Why Elder Activism Matters Now05:42 EAN: Purpose and Practice13:43 The Regenerative Elder Process (REP)20:17 Upcoming Courses & Community Engagement through Elders Rising24:38 Why Elder Cohorts Matter27:21 Community & Belonging in Later Life28:14 Elders Taking Action Locally30:33 Intergenerational Collaboration & Future Design31:54 Elders, History & Patriotism33:37 Education, Resilience & Sacred Activism36:19 Rebuilding Community & Cooperation46:41 How to Get Involved with Elders Action Network50:41 Final Reflections & Encouragement
Learn moreElders Action Network: https://eldersaction.org/Elders Rising: https://eldersaction.org/elders-rising/Regenerative Elder Process: https://eldersaction.org/regenerative-elder-process/
Hosted by Dr. John Izzo and Alain Gauthier · produced by Jim Burke
Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/bxpWUDkhmwIWebsite and newsletter: https://wayforwardpodcast.comLinktree: https://linktr.ee/wayforwardpodcastEmail: thewayforwardrc@gmail.com